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Talk:Mutsuki
Why exactly are she and Kawahara High 1-A? The only justification given on the profiles is being unfathomably superior to Marduk, who meets the basic requirements for 1-A, but that has been stated on multiple instances to not be nearly enough, since higher-end of 1-A =/= High 1-A.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot (talk) 10:35, July 5, 2017 (UTC) Because: 1. She has become the meta world itsels. So, she = whole I/O-verse. 2. She doesn't have any restrictions. Marduk and others are still restricted by meta world, because Mutsuki (or Sakuya) can change whole this world by one thought. 3. The main idea of I/O - an absolute freedom without any restrictions. And Mutsuki (or Sakuya) is incarnation of this idea. If possible, do you have the scans for this? Because many dimensionless voids run on the whole "limitless" idea, so we have to be pretty careful in these instances. Specifically the stuff about absolute freedom with no restrictions at all. Thanks.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot (talk) 11:29, July 5, 2017 (UTC) For correct understanding you need to reed VN. Whole "Imaginary Children" thing is a metaphore for those who wants to transcend limitations of material/real world. Whole "Infinite Staircase" thing is a metaphore for "upgrade" of humanity/humans. Some characters in I/O are limited by society. Some characters are limited by phisical body. Etc. And it the end all of them had become free. And whole humanity has become free. This is the main idea of I/O. And Mutsuki/Sakuya is a power, which can make that dream true. I will give you some scans later, though. Alright. Scans specifically related to that would be helpful, as we need that to actually justify High 1-A. Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot (talk) 12:03, July 5, 2017 (UTC) Here. Moon (Mutsuki) = leads to the "ultimate secret", which can give a freedom (from death/space/time/etc). Infinite Staircase = way to this "ultimate secret"/freedom. And to the Moon (Mutsuki). So, Moon (Mutsuki) is a symbol of that secret/freedom. Also: Moon (Mutsuki) returned world to its ideal form. Ultimate Secret is unthinkable and explains everything. About an independence (=freedom) for whole humanity. This should definitely be added to the verse page, as it gives even more justification for 1-A. However, I am not really seeing any justification for High 1-A, here. Just a higher degree of 1-A compared to your generic human who transcends into the meta world. Has DarkLK read I/O, at all? Perhaps he could add some insight. Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot (talk) 22:53, July 5, 2017 (UTC) Has DarkLK read I/O, at all? Perhaps he could add some insight. DarkLK is... "I like this verse, so, it's a high 1-A or even 0", "I don't like this verse, so, it's only a low 10-C or even 11". Something like that. However, I am not really seeing any justification for High 1-A, here. Just a higher degree of 1-A compared to your generic human who transcends into the meta world. 1. Mutsuki is a meta-world itself. So she = I/O-verse. 2. Mutsuki has "ultimate secret", which "unthinkable" and "explains everything". 3. Mutsuki can change whole I/O-verse by one thought. 4. Mutsuki comletely transcends other characters (excepts Sakuya and DP). Not just stronger. Not just infinetely stronger. Not just infinetely * .... * infinetely stronger. It's not difference in quantity. It's difference in quality. 5. Mutsuki can return the world (I/O-verse) to its ideal state. 6. Mutsuki doesn't have any known weaknesses. 7. Mutsuki doesn't have any known limitations. In sum this is more than enough for high 1-A. Or we don't have any high 1-A on this wiki. Mutsuki comletely transcends other characters (excepts Sakuya and DP). Not just stronger. Not just infinetely stronger. Not just infinetely * .... * infinetely stronger. It's not difference in quantity. It's difference in quality. Do you have the scans for this stuff in particular? Mutsuki and Sakuya being completely beyond all other beings (sans DP) in I/O on a completely fundamental level as opposed to just being more capable of altering the meta world? Because this is better justification for High 1-A. Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot (talk) 08:16, July 6, 2017 (UTC) Mutsuki and Sakuya being completely beyond all other beings (sans DP) in I/O on a completely fundamental level as opposed to just being more capable of altering the meta world? Strictly speaking all other characters (excepts DP and Sakuya) exist within Mutsuki. She = meta-world, they exist in this meta-world. This is a first reason for difference in quality. Moreover. Mutsuki has "ultimate" and "unthinkable" secret, that explais everything. Therefore she can manage something, that is unthinkable for other characters (excepts DP and Sakuya). This is a second reason for difference in quality. Then. Mutsuki can return the world to its "ideal" state. That means - "world cannot be better". It's a final stage for world. A complete perfection. And only Mutsuki (plus DP and Sakuya) can do it. This is a third reason for difference in quality. Last. Mutsuki omnipresent and omnipotent even for 1-A from I/O (they are a quite strong comparing with usual 1-A). They cannot even sense her. Cannot understand her. Cannot reach her. This is a fourth reason for difference in quality. No, I mean do you have the scans with the dialogue that states this. Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot (talk) 09:35, July 6, 2017 (UTC) No, I mean do you have the scans with the dialogue that states this. States what? Something like "she is on the completely different level, she is on the BLEACH LEVEL, TU-DU-DUM!"? Sorry, but it's not a chuuni. I had provided a scans with information about "ideal" world, "unthinkable" knowledge, etc already. I don't understand what you want. It's not a battle shounen. This VN is a one big metaphor full of symbols. And even so there is a lot of information about Mitsuki's superiority. Pretty much anything that discusses her superiority on a conceptual level, which you implied shouldn't be too difficult since it is not merely a difference in power, and would not require shounen-esque dialogue. That's what I'm looking for. Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot (talk) 22:22, July 6, 2017 (UTC) I'm not talking about difference in power. Again: Moon (Mutsuki) returned world to its ideal form. Ultimate Secret is unthinkable and explains everything. Mutsuki has a knowledge, which is unthinkable for 1-A. Mutsuki can return world to its ideal form, which is impossible for 1-A. Moreover. 1-A from I/O cannot even interact with her (for example, 1-A from Umineko can interact with Featherine Augustus Aurora). I don't think being unthinkable to another 1-A automatically makes you High 1-A, nor does performing a feat impossible for another 1-A. I'm fairly certain those both just require being a higher degree of 1-A. I don't know if 1-As interacting with Featherine is entirely correct, though DarkLK would be much more knowledgable on that. This seems to indicate Mutsuki and Sakuya are both vastly superior to the rest of the 1-As in I/O, but I still feel as if there needs to be something more regarding her complete transcendence and conceptual superiority beyond just being an unfathomable degree more potent.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot (talk) 02:12, July 8, 2017 (UTC) there needs to be something more Again - there is no high 1-A on this wiki then. Again, I have not said absolutely everything you have told me is not at all High 1-A, but that I have not seen any scans that suggest High 1-A. For such a high tier, especially from something so few people relatively have played or have access to, this is extremely important, which is why I am asking for them. Context of stuff like this is very important. I feel the need to stress that I do not believe you are lying, but that this is simply one of those cases where I feel being able to provide direct proof of said tier on the profile via quotes or direct scans is important.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot (talk) 08:12, July 9, 2017 (UTC)